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	<title>Comments on: The Vermicomposting Trench</title>
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	<description>Red Wiggler Worms, European Nightcrawlers and loads of helpful Worm Composting Information</description>
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		<title>By: Bentley</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-30516</link>
		<dc:creator>Bentley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2011 21:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great response, Yoder! (hope that helps, John - thanks for your words).

The new system sounds great - drop me an email sometime to let me know what all you are doing these days.

B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great response, Yoder! (hope that helps, John &#8211; thanks for your words).</p>
<p>The new system sounds great &#8211; drop me an email sometime to let me know what all you are doing these days.</p>
<p>B</p>
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		<title>By: yoder</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-30483</link>
		<dc:creator>yoder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2011 01:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-30483</guid>
		<description>john, wood (and therefore sawdust) has an extremely HIGH C:N ratio, which is to say the opposite of what you said: it has virtually no nitrogen, and will continue to &quot;bind&quot; up any would-be-available nitrogen in the area as it breaks down (this concept is discussed a lot in composting literature and conversations). 

Here&#039;s my best bet as to why your potato technique works so well: Wood is almost pure carbon, but it&#039;s &quot;tough&quot; carbon, so it breaks down relatively slowly (therefore eats up nitrogen slowly), compared to other forms of C (e.g. straw, paper, etc, which are &quot;softer&quot;... read &quot;Teaming with Microbes&quot;, which goes further, into bacterially- and fungally- dominated soils). Sawdust has many times the surface area as wood chips, which will work the other direction -- faster decomposition, faster nitrogen-eating. But it will still go slowly. I bet your sawdust is acting primarily as a sponge that retains moisture, and an aerated medium to provide your roots with oxygen. It will also add Organic Matter to your soil as it decays, which will still hold moisture, but also nutrients, and it will provide habitat for microbes, which are the ones doing all the work (they&#039;re the ones the worms are after)!

The grass clippings would have a fair amount of extra nitrogen to feed your &#039;taters, so it&#039;s likely a great plan to have them between the plants and the shavings. 

i wish i knew where to get a bunch of free wood chips! luckyyyyy...


bentley, i&#039;ve got a new Worm Windrow that i&#039;m building little-by-little using kitchen scraps, chicken poop and straw. The worms love it, and the chickens love me for it. When i peel back the tarp, they crowd around and gobble down any worm in sight. Not kidding, the worms themselves are what brought us together as friends. 
Now that chicken poop is almost converted to worm poop to the point where i can turn it into plants! woowoowoo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john, wood (and therefore sawdust) has an extremely HIGH C:N ratio, which is to say the opposite of what you said: it has virtually no nitrogen, and will continue to &#8220;bind&#8221; up any would-be-available nitrogen in the area as it breaks down (this concept is discussed a lot in composting literature and conversations). </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my best bet as to why your potato technique works so well: Wood is almost pure carbon, but it&#8217;s &#8220;tough&#8221; carbon, so it breaks down relatively slowly (therefore eats up nitrogen slowly), compared to other forms of C (e.g. straw, paper, etc, which are &#8220;softer&#8221;&#8230; read &#8220;Teaming with Microbes&#8221;, which goes further, into bacterially- and fungally- dominated soils). Sawdust has many times the surface area as wood chips, which will work the other direction &#8212; faster decomposition, faster nitrogen-eating. But it will still go slowly. I bet your sawdust is acting primarily as a sponge that retains moisture, and an aerated medium to provide your roots with oxygen. It will also add Organic Matter to your soil as it decays, which will still hold moisture, but also nutrients, and it will provide habitat for microbes, which are the ones doing all the work (they&#8217;re the ones the worms are after)!</p>
<p>The grass clippings would have a fair amount of extra nitrogen to feed your &#8216;taters, so it&#8217;s likely a great plan to have them between the plants and the shavings. </p>
<p>i wish i knew where to get a bunch of free wood chips! luckyyyyy&#8230;</p>
<p>bentley, i&#8217;ve got a new Worm Windrow that i&#8217;m building little-by-little using kitchen scraps, chicken poop and straw. The worms love it, and the chickens love me for it. When i peel back the tarp, they crowd around and gobble down any worm in sight. Not kidding, the worms themselves are what brought us together as friends.<br />
Now that chicken poop is almost converted to worm poop to the point where i can turn it into plants! woowoowoo</p>
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		<title>By: John Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-30463</link>
		<dc:creator>John Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 06:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-30463</guid>
		<description>Seems like not much is known about the benefits of wood being used in a garden....and your right, the big wood pieces used in pathways and ground cover don&#039;t break down fast enough to be of use in a compost pit......My method was to go to a logging/lumber site where they produced lots of sawdust each day and use that....mostly because of the Nitrogen content in it I used it in my garden where I planted potatoes....dig a trench about 10 inches deep, place a 4 or 5 inch layer of sawdust down, cover with grass clippings that have been heated until very hot (in plastic bags sitting in the sun) andopened to cool, a layer of dirt to finish filling the trenchand then put potatoe eyed skins spaced apart in hills over the top....easy to build, very little intrusive plant grown around your potatoes, and so easy to pull from the ground once the plants have matured......Good work on you web site Bentley..so glad to see your postings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems like not much is known about the benefits of wood being used in a garden&#8230;.and your right, the big wood pieces used in pathways and ground cover don&#8217;t break down fast enough to be of use in a compost pit&#8230;&#8230;My method was to go to a logging/lumber site where they produced lots of sawdust each day and use that&#8230;.mostly because of the Nitrogen content in it I used it in my garden where I planted potatoes&#8230;.dig a trench about 10 inches deep, place a 4 or 5 inch layer of sawdust down, cover with grass clippings that have been heated until very hot (in plastic bags sitting in the sun) andopened to cool, a layer of dirt to finish filling the trenchand then put potatoe eyed skins spaced apart in hills over the top&#8230;.easy to build, very little intrusive plant grown around your potatoes, and so easy to pull from the ground once the plants have matured&#8230;&#8230;Good work on you web site Bentley..so glad to see your postings</p>
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		<title>By: Bentley</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-28078</link>
		<dc:creator>Bentley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-28078</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone - sorry for the lack of responses on this one!

JOEL - you&#039;ve raised an interesting issue. I have a friend in Texas who uses vermi-trenches, but I can&#039;t recall what (if anything) she has done to deal with fire ants - will need to touch base with her about that.
------------
TOFFEE - Your assumptions sound pretty good, although I would say it&#039;s the vermicomposting process in general (not just worms) that provides the overall benefits. Also, while this can certainly benefit deeper roots, it can also really benefit the upper roots (this is where I&#039;ve seen LOTS of evidence of roots growing right into the trench in fact)

How close you make the trench is up to you - it would probably just depend on the plants you are growing. I probably put my plants 1-2 ft away from the trench most of the time, although last year I actually planted some tomatoes right in the trench.

I recommend feeding the trench on a regular basis. With food wastes during the summer, you would likely need to provide a good feed at least once ever week or two in order to limit sinking and provide the worms with a good supply of food. With materials like manure you can probably get away with longer periods between feeding since the volume doesn&#039;t get reduced nearly as much.

I don&#039;t recommend adding a lot of worms initially - maybe start with a pound at the most. The last thing you want is to spend a lot of money only to discover that they don&#039;t like the habitat. The best way to introduce them is by dumping in worm-rich material from another vermicomposting system - this way they have a protective safe zone to stay in if the trench is not providing the right sort of environment.

Rotten alfalfa is fantastic stuff AS LONG AS you can keep it nice and moist - you may want to mix in some absorbent material (shredded cardboard etc) as well. Just using straw and hay may result in a mix that dries too easily, which will lead the worms to venture off.
---------------
PAT - Our summers generally don&#039;t get that hot, so I can&#039;t say for sure - but my suspicion is that you would be totally fine, as long as you have ample protective bedding over top. I have heavy clay soil myself, and have been amazed with the impact that my trenches (and other vermigardening methods) have had on my yard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone &#8211; sorry for the lack of responses on this one!</p>
<p>JOEL &#8211; you&#8217;ve raised an interesting issue. I have a friend in Texas who uses vermi-trenches, but I can&#8217;t recall what (if anything) she has done to deal with fire ants &#8211; will need to touch base with her about that.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
TOFFEE &#8211; Your assumptions sound pretty good, although I would say it&#8217;s the vermicomposting process in general (not just worms) that provides the overall benefits. Also, while this can certainly benefit deeper roots, it can also really benefit the upper roots (this is where I&#8217;ve seen LOTS of evidence of roots growing right into the trench in fact)</p>
<p>How close you make the trench is up to you &#8211; it would probably just depend on the plants you are growing. I probably put my plants 1-2 ft away from the trench most of the time, although last year I actually planted some tomatoes right in the trench.</p>
<p>I recommend feeding the trench on a regular basis. With food wastes during the summer, you would likely need to provide a good feed at least once ever week or two in order to limit sinking and provide the worms with a good supply of food. With materials like manure you can probably get away with longer periods between feeding since the volume doesn&#8217;t get reduced nearly as much.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t recommend adding a lot of worms initially &#8211; maybe start with a pound at the most. The last thing you want is to spend a lot of money only to discover that they don&#8217;t like the habitat. The best way to introduce them is by dumping in worm-rich material from another vermicomposting system &#8211; this way they have a protective safe zone to stay in if the trench is not providing the right sort of environment.</p>
<p>Rotten alfalfa is fantastic stuff AS LONG AS you can keep it nice and moist &#8211; you may want to mix in some absorbent material (shredded cardboard etc) as well. Just using straw and hay may result in a mix that dries too easily, which will lead the worms to venture off.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
PAT &#8211; Our summers generally don&#8217;t get that hot, so I can&#8217;t say for sure &#8211; but my suspicion is that you would be totally fine, as long as you have ample protective bedding over top. I have heavy clay soil myself, and have been amazed with the impact that my trenches (and other vermigardening methods) have had on my yard.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-27963</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 06:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-27963</guid>
		<description>I live in SC, zone 7 our summers are high 90&#039;s winters can get into the 20&#039;s.  Is a 2 foot trench deep enough to protect the worms from our heat?  My purpose in vermiculture is to develop decent soil.  My soil is clay.  Will trenches fulfill this need?  We can dig as many trenches as are needed.  Your articles have been of great value.
 
Thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in SC, zone 7 our summers are high 90&#8242;s winters can get into the 20&#8242;s.  Is a 2 foot trench deep enough to protect the worms from our heat?  My purpose in vermiculture is to develop decent soil.  My soil is clay.  Will trenches fulfill this need?  We can dig as many trenches as are needed.  Your articles have been of great value.</p>
<p>Thank you</p>
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		<title>By: toffee</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-26651</link>
		<dc:creator>toffee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-26651</guid>
		<description>Hi guys, first time poster here and I am intrigued by this fantastic idea!  Let&#039;s if I got the assumptions right.

Assumptions:
1. The trench is  an inground lasagna bed with addition of purchased worms.
2. The trench with wet green stuff will not only feed the worms but also as a source of moisture for the targeted plants.
3. The trench needs to be relatively close to the planting area so the worms can move around the targeted planting area and for the plants&#039; root to reach the moisture.
4. The soil improvement of the planting area is done mostly by the worms and not the composting?
5. Since the trenches are relatively deep at 18-24&quot;, it&#039;s more efficient in helping the deeper roots since norm rototillers only tilt 6-8&quot;?

Is my assumptions are right, then 
1. How close must the trench to the planting area?  
2. How often would the trench needs to be refilled?
3. How many worms per say 120 ft3 of trenches?  
4. If lack of large amount of kitchen waste, can I use Alfalfa hay as green, straw as brown?  What about shredder leafy branches of freshly cut hedges?

Thanks for helping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi guys, first time poster here and I am intrigued by this fantastic idea!  Let&#8217;s if I got the assumptions right.</p>
<p>Assumptions:<br />
1. The trench is  an inground lasagna bed with addition of purchased worms.<br />
2. The trench with wet green stuff will not only feed the worms but also as a source of moisture for the targeted plants.<br />
3. The trench needs to be relatively close to the planting area so the worms can move around the targeted planting area and for the plants&#8217; root to reach the moisture.<br />
4. The soil improvement of the planting area is done mostly by the worms and not the composting?<br />
5. Since the trenches are relatively deep at 18-24&#8243;, it&#8217;s more efficient in helping the deeper roots since norm rototillers only tilt 6-8&#8243;?</p>
<p>Is my assumptions are right, then<br />
1. How close must the trench to the planting area?<br />
2. How often would the trench needs to be refilled?<br />
3. How many worms per say 120 ft3 of trenches?<br />
4. If lack of large amount of kitchen waste, can I use Alfalfa hay as green, straw as brown?  What about shredder leafy branches of freshly cut hedges?</p>
<p>Thanks for helping.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel LeGrand</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-25956</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel LeGrand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-25956</guid>
		<description>I live in the South, hot summers &amp;  cold 10-20F(-15/-5C) winters.
My only problem with an outdoor worm bed is Fire ants, we have 4 kinds here, we also have killer honeybees, but that another blog.
Most people put the worms in old bathtubs or large containers on a wooden frame of  2X4 with the legs in bowls of oil. this stops the ants from killing &amp; eating your worms.
Anyone from the South have a plan to stop the ants from getting in the trench system. Cinnamon &amp; Bone meal works on deer &amp; many bugs, not Fire ants or dogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in the South, hot summers &amp;  cold 10-20F(-15/-5C) winters.<br />
My only problem with an outdoor worm bed is Fire ants, we have 4 kinds here, we also have killer honeybees, but that another blog.<br />
Most people put the worms in old bathtubs or large containers on a wooden frame of  2X4 with the legs in bowls of oil. this stops the ants from killing &amp; eating your worms.<br />
Anyone from the South have a plan to stop the ants from getting in the trench system. Cinnamon &amp; Bone meal works on deer &amp; many bugs, not Fire ants or dogs.</p>
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		<title>By: Bentley</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-25031</link>
		<dc:creator>Bentley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-25031</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Mike - you got me all mixed up here! I thought this was my recent vermicomposting trench video post we were commenting on!!
I recommend you check out the Vermicomposting Trench section on the Hot Topics page to see all the posts, updates etc:
http://www.redwormcomposting.com/popular-vermicomposting-topics/#vermicomposting-trenches</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Mike &#8211; you got me all mixed up here! I thought this was my recent vermicomposting trench video post we were commenting on!!<br />
I recommend you check out the Vermicomposting Trench section on the Hot Topics page to see all the posts, updates etc:<br />
<a href="http://www.redwormcomposting.com/popular-vermicomposting-topics/#vermicomposting-trenches" rel="nofollow">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/popular-vermicomposting-topics/#vermicomposting-trenches</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bentley</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-25030</link>
		<dc:creator>Bentley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-25030</guid>
		<description>MIKE - Not sure what you mean in terms of tomato harvest &quot;update&quot;. I talked about it a bit in the video and showed pics, but did not provide total weights or anything (is this what you were hoping for?).
I hear ya on the rock front - definitely NO fun when you run into them full-blast with your shovel!
------------------
ANNA - Growing Power is an awesome organization. Sounds like I have a similar approach with my own (Canadian) worm business - I switched over to a &quot;worm culture&quot; approach (essentially providing customers with worm-rich material) and am always keen to know what sort of system they&#039;ve set up (&quot;you DID set it up ahead of time, right???!&quot; lol) to make sure the worms are going to a good home.
:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MIKE &#8211; Not sure what you mean in terms of tomato harvest &#8220;update&#8221;. I talked about it a bit in the video and showed pics, but did not provide total weights or anything (is this what you were hoping for?).<br />
I hear ya on the rock front &#8211; definitely NO fun when you run into them full-blast with your shovel!<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
ANNA &#8211; Growing Power is an awesome organization. Sounds like I have a similar approach with my own (Canadian) worm business &#8211; I switched over to a &#8220;worm culture&#8221; approach (essentially providing customers with worm-rich material) and am always keen to know what sort of system they&#8217;ve set up (&#8220;you DID set it up ahead of time, right???!&#8221; lol) to make sure the worms are going to a good home.<br />
 <img src='http://www.redwormcomposting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/large-scale-vermicomposting/the-vermicomposting-trench/comment-page-2/#comment-25029</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=205#comment-25029</guid>
		<description>There seems to be a pretty good population of Milwaukee vermicomposters, doesn&#039;t there?  For anyone else in this area interested in getting worms, go to Growing Power.  They charge $25 for a 5 gallon bucket full of worms and bedding (and don&#039;t worry, you&#039;ll be getting LOTS of worms in there).  There are only 2 catches to this.  (1) you MUST bring your own bucket. They won&#039;t sell you one--believe me, I tried!  (2) They will quiz you on your worm knowledge.  The questions aren&#039;t terribly challenging, but they do want to make sure that you stand a good chance of keeping the worms alive.

Bentley--I suspect you have already heard of Growing Power, but if you haven&#039;t, they&#039;re a pretty neat organization.  Their founder is working on sustainable agriculture and making fresh produce more available to inner-city kids/families.  Vermicompost is central to his mission and he composts not only food waste but also brewery waste from some of Milwaukee&#039;s smaller brewery&#039;s.  He&#039;s also involved in aquaponics, as I know you are.  http://www.growingpower.org/Index.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be a pretty good population of Milwaukee vermicomposters, doesn&#8217;t there?  For anyone else in this area interested in getting worms, go to Growing Power.  They charge $25 for a 5 gallon bucket full of worms and bedding (and don&#8217;t worry, you&#8217;ll be getting LOTS of worms in there).  There are only 2 catches to this.  (1) you MUST bring your own bucket. They won&#8217;t sell you one&#8211;believe me, I tried!  (2) They will quiz you on your worm knowledge.  The questions aren&#8217;t terribly challenging, but they do want to make sure that you stand a good chance of keeping the worms alive.</p>
<p>Bentley&#8211;I suspect you have already heard of Growing Power, but if you haven&#8217;t, they&#8217;re a pretty neat organization.  Their founder is working on sustainable agriculture and making fresh produce more available to inner-city kids/families.  Vermicompost is central to his mission and he composts not only food waste but also brewery waste from some of Milwaukee&#8217;s smaller brewery&#8217;s.  He&#8217;s also involved in aquaponics, as I know you are.  <a href="http://www.growingpower.org/Index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.growingpower.org/Index.htm</a></p>
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