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	<title>Comments on: Packaging Worms for Sale</title>
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	<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/</link>
	<description>Red Wiggler Worms, European Nightcrawlers and loads of helpful Worm Composting Information</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel Herrington</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7616</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Herrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7616</guid>
		<description>Not sure if this might help answer the styrofoam issue or not. However, the styrofoam material is made of a polymer very much like plastic but with a focus on light weight containment. Actually invented by DOW chemicals its proper name is polystyrene foam and is made using unique hydro carbons from fossil fuels (oil). As are all plastic derivatives. However, the use of polystyrene as a long term bin concept might introduce chemical imbalances into the vermicomposting envrionment slowing the process of creating mesophilic culture which is one of the bacteria&#039;s that makes the soil come alive during composting. This would not be present in the polymer structure used to create a typical plastic like the popular rough neck style we use in vermicomposting. The slower the mesophilic culture develops the worse or the longer it will take for the material to do their work. Not just the worm, but the soil itself in how the compost gets formed. This is why styrofoam has limited applications and is unfit for long term storage and is so easy to break. Its just a weak bad version of plastic with a specific intent. I don&#039;t think vermicomposting and it could even get along well, and I would think the worms would always want to run away from this type of construction for their environment. Hope that helps a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure if this might help answer the styrofoam issue or not. However, the styrofoam material is made of a polymer very much like plastic but with a focus on light weight containment. Actually invented by DOW chemicals its proper name is polystyrene foam and is made using unique hydro carbons from fossil fuels (oil). As are all plastic derivatives. However, the use of polystyrene as a long term bin concept might introduce chemical imbalances into the vermicomposting envrionment slowing the process of creating mesophilic culture which is one of the bacteria&#8217;s that makes the soil come alive during composting. This would not be present in the polymer structure used to create a typical plastic like the popular rough neck style we use in vermicomposting. The slower the mesophilic culture develops the worse or the longer it will take for the material to do their work. Not just the worm, but the soil itself in how the compost gets formed. This is why styrofoam has limited applications and is unfit for long term storage and is so easy to break. Its just a weak bad version of plastic with a specific intent. I don&#8217;t think vermicomposting and it could even get along well, and I would think the worms would always want to run away from this type of construction for their environment. Hope that helps a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Fumblina</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7524</link>
		<dc:creator>Fumblina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7524</guid>
		<description>Just a comment about the distilled water...  we drink distilled water not live in it so it adds to our hydration levels.  Bathing in water for prolonged periods of time dehydrated the skin (prune fingertips!), but doesn&#039;t have a significant effect on our overall water level. However I am guessing worms have a different surface area to mass ratio so that could be different for them.

On the other hand I seem to remember that worms enjoy a 80%humidity level which is certainly outside of my comfort zone so maybe hydration is completely irrelevant.

My worms are happy in a pretty mucky environment and any pure water (rain) that gets added to my bin quickly becomes less than pure.  I don&#039;t see that using distilled water would be of any benefit* or harm to the worms unless they were in a particularly sterile environment.  And if they are in a sterile environment then thats more likely to be your problem.

*although de-chlorinating it might be a good plan

You could look at is testing pH level.. also something useful for the science lessons? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a comment about the distilled water&#8230;  we drink distilled water not live in it so it adds to our hydration levels.  Bathing in water for prolonged periods of time dehydrated the skin (prune fingertips!), but doesn&#8217;t have a significant effect on our overall water level. However I am guessing worms have a different surface area to mass ratio so that could be different for them.</p>
<p>On the other hand I seem to remember that worms enjoy a 80%humidity level which is certainly outside of my comfort zone so maybe hydration is completely irrelevant.</p>
<p>My worms are happy in a pretty mucky environment and any pure water (rain) that gets added to my bin quickly becomes less than pure.  I don&#8217;t see that using distilled water would be of any benefit* or harm to the worms unless they were in a particularly sterile environment.  And if they are in a sterile environment then thats more likely to be your problem.</p>
<p>*although de-chlorinating it might be a good plan</p>
<p>You could look at is testing pH level.. also something useful for the science lessons? <img src='http://www.redwormcomposting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7513</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 06:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7513</guid>
		<description>Hmm.. distilled water... is it common to use distilled water near worms?    It has been a while since I&#039;ve been in a biology class... so this is a wild guess (and admittedly perhaps based just an old urban myth about distilled water)

It seems like it could be dangerous getting your earth worms near distilled water ( depending on how their skin is structured)...It seems like having liquid high in nutrients on the inside of their skin membrane and very pure water on the other side of the membrane might cause either water to enter the worm or nutrients to leave the worm?  Reading your description of the worms &quot;bleeding out&quot; sorta made me think of this...   nutrients being sucked out of the worm by the distilled water it was put near.  

Btw, about the urban myth I think I read somewhere that for humans at least drinking distilled water doesn&#039;t cause the wrong nutrients to be sucked out of the body as it passes since we have semi-permeable membranes that only allow desired nutrients to pass in the correct direction through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.. distilled water&#8230; is it common to use distilled water near worms?    It has been a while since I&#8217;ve been in a biology class&#8230; so this is a wild guess (and admittedly perhaps based just an old urban myth about distilled water)</p>
<p>It seems like it could be dangerous getting your earth worms near distilled water ( depending on how their skin is structured)&#8230;It seems like having liquid high in nutrients on the inside of their skin membrane and very pure water on the other side of the membrane might cause either water to enter the worm or nutrients to leave the worm?  Reading your description of the worms &#8220;bleeding out&#8221; sorta made me think of this&#8230;   nutrients being sucked out of the worm by the distilled water it was put near.  </p>
<p>Btw, about the urban myth I think I read somewhere that for humans at least drinking distilled water doesn&#8217;t cause the wrong nutrients to be sucked out of the body as it passes since we have semi-permeable membranes that only allow desired nutrients to pass in the correct direction through.</p>
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		<title>By: David Carter</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7511</link>
		<dc:creator>David Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 02:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7511</guid>
		<description>Keeping them in the fridge too long could be bad too, the air that comes out of the fridge is very dry. The refrigeration process takes most of the moisture out of the air. You could probably tell this was the problem if the worms were getting smaller after you leave them in for a while (since they would be dehydrating).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keeping them in the fridge too long could be bad too, the air that comes out of the fridge is very dry. The refrigeration process takes most of the moisture out of the air. You could probably tell this was the problem if the worms were getting smaller after you leave them in for a while (since they would be dehydrating).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7453</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7453</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments.  I found out our sawdust is not treated wood and no cedar.  I have thought of the light and the styrofoam especially the lids - this could be part of the problem but I usually keep them in the fridge.  However, do the worms really eat while they are in the fridge?  They are so slow it doesn&#039;t seem as though they are eating. (and keeping them fat for the fishermen is important) I may need to try a new container.  So far, the sawdust/paper combination is working. (with them in the fridge) I will try a container or two and leave them out and see what happens.  We definately have the coffee grounds.  That is a good idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments.  I found out our sawdust is not treated wood and no cedar.  I have thought of the light and the styrofoam especially the lids &#8211; this could be part of the problem but I usually keep them in the fridge.  However, do the worms really eat while they are in the fridge?  They are so slow it doesn&#8217;t seem as though they are eating. (and keeping them fat for the fishermen is important) I may need to try a new container.  So far, the sawdust/paper combination is working. (with them in the fridge) I will try a container or two and leave them out and see what happens.  We definately have the coffee grounds.  That is a good idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7450</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7450</guid>
		<description>Couple of thoughts: Worms don&#039;t like light, and styrofoam lets through a lot of light. It&#039;s probably dark in the fridge - but not sure if they are out.

Why not add a tablepoon of used coffee grinds to each container? Worms love grinds, it will look better than ripped up newspaper, and won&#039;t smell bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couple of thoughts: Worms don&#8217;t like light, and styrofoam lets through a lot of light. It&#8217;s probably dark in the fridge &#8211; but not sure if they are out.</p>
<p>Why not add a tablepoon of used coffee grinds to each container? Worms love grinds, it will look better than ripped up newspaper, and won&#8217;t smell bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7438</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 05:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7438</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris

I don&#039;t think they are crawling out of the bedding looking for food! It is something else, I think! Because they were coming out of the bedding to the top of the cup, I was almost sure it was air they were needing! if there is air holes, it is something else that is making them die.
Maybe it is the Styrofoam!! Are you located in Canada? I could send you a few of the paper cups I use for my worms, If they are still dying, then there is something wrong with your packaging material!
At the Moment I would not be going to the woodworking shop and getting the saw dust, if there is ceder saw dust or any treated wood saw dust this will also kill your worms,
I use composted cow manure and peat moss as my material in the cups, where as the manure is the food source, I soak it bedding over night, then I use it in the cups, it lasts for weeks, again you squeez out most of the water, so the bedding is nice and damp, not wet!
Coconut Coir, is OK, but it dries out alot quicker then the peat/manure material. do you have a farm close to your school, where you could get some nice composted manure?

hope this helps a little.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think they are crawling out of the bedding looking for food! It is something else, I think! Because they were coming out of the bedding to the top of the cup, I was almost sure it was air they were needing! if there is air holes, it is something else that is making them die.<br />
Maybe it is the Styrofoam!! Are you located in Canada? I could send you a few of the paper cups I use for my worms, If they are still dying, then there is something wrong with your packaging material!<br />
At the Moment I would not be going to the woodworking shop and getting the saw dust, if there is ceder saw dust or any treated wood saw dust this will also kill your worms,<br />
I use composted cow manure and peat moss as my material in the cups, where as the manure is the food source, I soak it bedding over night, then I use it in the cups, it lasts for weeks, again you squeez out most of the water, so the bedding is nice and damp, not wet!<br />
Coconut Coir, is OK, but it dries out alot quicker then the peat/manure material. do you have a farm close to your school, where you could get some nice composted manure?</p>
<p>hope this helps a little.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Gagne</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7436</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Gagne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7436</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your suggestions.  I think we needed a food source.  Were they crawling out of the bedding looking for food? We like to use things around the school so we are going to try shredded paper (that our students shred), and sawdust (from the woods room) moistened with distilled water.  What do you think?  We will keep using the styrofoam with holes poked (we did remember the air holes) until we run out but will look into paper when we have to order more.

Also, we refridgerate them for a few days before we have enough to take over to the gas station.  How long should they last in a fridge?  And should they be crawling out of the bedding to the top of the container?

Thanks again
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your suggestions.  I think we needed a food source.  Were they crawling out of the bedding looking for food? We like to use things around the school so we are going to try shredded paper (that our students shred), and sawdust (from the woods room) moistened with distilled water.  What do you think?  We will keep using the styrofoam with holes poked (we did remember the air holes) until we run out but will look into paper when we have to order more.</p>
<p>Also, we refridgerate them for a few days before we have enough to take over to the gas station.  How long should they last in a fridge?  And should they be crawling out of the bedding to the top of the container?</p>
<p>Thanks again<br />
Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/packaging-worms-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-7418</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 05:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redwormcomposting.com/?p=179#comment-7418</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris

I am Bentley&#039;s worm farmer friend that uses the paper hot soup cup for selling my worms to the Fisherman,
I am pretty sure your styrofoam containers are not the problem, these type of containers are used still by almost all bait shops, except myself and a few others using the paper cups
 How about air flow, is there air holes in the lid? What are you mixing in with the packaging material as a food source? if any!
Just before you see the worms starting to die, is there an anarobic smell? Like Bentley said, earthy smell is needed! To keep the worms healthy.
Good composted material for the packaging is a great bedding and food source for the worms,in the bait cups, if you try this and they are still dying, It is not the bedding material, you will need to go back to what I said before, (no air) maybe the container is toxic to the worms.

Keep use in the loop!!  we will figure this one out!!

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris</p>
<p>I am Bentley&#8217;s worm farmer friend that uses the paper hot soup cup for selling my worms to the Fisherman,<br />
I am pretty sure your styrofoam containers are not the problem, these type of containers are used still by almost all bait shops, except myself and a few others using the paper cups<br />
 How about air flow, is there air holes in the lid? What are you mixing in with the packaging material as a food source? if any!<br />
Just before you see the worms starting to die, is there an anarobic smell? Like Bentley said, earthy smell is needed! To keep the worms healthy.<br />
Good composted material for the packaging is a great bedding and food source for the worms,in the bait cups, if you try this and they are still dying, It is not the bedding material, you will need to go back to what I said before, (no air) maybe the container is toxic to the worms.</p>
<p>Keep use in the loop!!  we will figure this one out!!</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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